*Snip* Removed quoting of an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

The problem isn't solo PvP in a battleship, it's that you'll almost never get a 1:1 fight. More often than not you'll instead be tackled by an interceptor then dogpiled. Which is why you'll almost never see battleships outside of fleets or missioning in high-sec.

They do.

Even more so when you consider that a sensor booster gives 60% of 100 (60mm), while battlecruisers get 60% of 250 (150mm)...

How are your BS locking times so long?

Well in action I can tell you it does not take 8 seconds to lock a BS. I lock cruisers in that time and frigates aren't that far off 8 seconds either.

If you're trying to force frigs into non-consensual player interaction, why would you be using a BS anyway? It's not the right tool for the job. It seems you won't be satisfied until T1 BS is the right tool for every job. Screw everything else, right?

No, of course not, you're just complaining that they can't. Completely different to trying to force it to be so because you're not a dev, so you can't force **** anyway.

But your numbers are wrong.

Your locking times are very different to what I get in game when fighting people.

To be fair, the people you're fighting have probably done such outlandish and unexpected things as tanked their shields or (gasp!) used MWDsGǪ so those experiences are obviously not representative.

Uh-huh.

Then what is it you are actually SAYING? So far, you've just thrown a bunch of numbers up and implied a point, but explicitly made none. Make a point, or GTFO.

The Golem is by far my favorite death machine at the moment.

Ignoring the knee-jerk reactionary 'troll' comment, I'm getting the part where you think 106mm is a locking time instead of a scan resolution. I get that you're confused about the purpose of a battleship. What I don't get is why you would make this point if it was anything other than complaining. Why SHOULD a battleship be able to lock things faster? You say you're making a point, but you're not providing clarity on the follow through or destination of this point, or why this point matters.

So let's bottom line it, shall we? Because, quite frankly, you're talking to people here with far more battleship experience than you so, whatever your problem is, I'm sure we can clear it up.

Provided you're not just trolling, of course.

derp

Not even close. That was a witty quip, I'll agree not in the best taste, but it was hardly the epitome of ignorance. That's your forte.

What should the meta for BSes look like Infinity Ziona?

But they can already get plenty of engagements with cruisers. Locking times are not what you have put down.

No, you didn't, you bought your character illicitly. I've played this game for near a decade, and quit for quite a while in between subs. I have MASSIVE gaps in my knowledge of this game.

But I can't hold a candle to your sheer ignorance. Do you even play this game?

Oh, and I betcha I probably have more flight time in battleships than you do, let alone Baltec, who literally does not fly anything else.

So tell me why that golem in the vid was locking cruisers at 8 seconds when you say that is the locking time on battleship sized targets?

As someone who flys BS almost all the time I simply do not see the numbers that you have stated.

Come on guys, that 'your mom' joke was funny. Your mom's so fat she's a marauder class battleship? C'mon, that's grade A stuff.


Sorry, marauders aren't battleships.

I'll quote you.


I do not see these numbers in game when fighting people. 8 seconds is is closer to locking a cruiser, not a battleship. Your numbers do not correspond to what I see in game.

I'm not using one. Equally, a BS can be in warp a lot faster than in 11 seconds. None of the numbers you are posting have any relevance to what happens in game. Before the warp speed changes I was well known for our running cruiser fleets in my mega, with the changes its possible for me leave them in my dust when roaming.

You missed the part where this is a forum alt. Nice job with my corp history though, I'm totally impressed that you can rightclick my portrait and still miss my sig.

I do find it rather amusing that you believe that old IZ has any credibility left in regards to fitting and ship knowledge, though. Especially considering the whole Shield Tanked Proteus episode, and all. Nevermind the literal bevy of other stupid **** he says.

What makes you believe the only thing that can be classed as a Battleship or Cruiser is the T1 version? It's a hull classification system, funnily enough a Marauder gets the Battleship stats as well as the Mara stats, which sort of suggests battleship on steroids. They are shaped the same, similar sizes etc >.> Are you saying a Hulk isn't really a mining barge as well - because, well look at the stats? Ohh, you could try this on bubbles, drones and ammo too. "That's NOT a drone, it's an ewar drone, its completely different you fool!" If you are correct, ISIS needs changing, and the market and all the info on all the ships ingame. AND the stats, for er, everything. We'll need new models too.

But what about ewar drones?

Sig on an unfitted caracal is 125.

Fit a tank to it and you get 188

Turn on its MWD and it balloons to 1.09k


It gets worse if someone target paints it. Your numbers are not realistic and do not comply with what happens in game, you have made the mistake of relying on EFT and not doing things in game.

What makes you think it would warp away?

But they do just fine, you just saw a battleship take on a 40 man gang. They do not need faster locking timers just because you want to catch frigates with them.

You saw a raven hull do it.

A raven will happily take on 2-3 guys in cruisers just fine. I had a fight the other week vs two caracals that would have gone down much easier if I had rapid heavies rather than rapid lights or even torps.

Hard to discuss when someone starts spouting not only that but incorrect numbers and shoddy assumptions based only upon EFT.

Large ships are more than capable of going solo and as we saw with that marauder, can be downright deadly.

So .. uhm.. I've never flown a battleship, as I don't have the skills yet.
But this all sounds as if battleships are not meant for soloplay but more for fleets with other ships providing what they can't do themselves, so they can do what other ships cannot do as well.

Is that so wrong?

Edit: I should have said "are not meant to be as good in solo play". I suppose you can still get your fights if you use them with baiting tactics, maybe?

I couldn't agree more. As has been previously discussed:
GÇó Give them all a base warp core strength such that they're not at risk of tackle from a single ship, ie: +2-3
GÇó Increase their warp speed (but not warp acceleration speed) to that of a cruiser, ie: 3.0 AU/s
GÇó Increase both their sensor strength (higher EW immunity) and scan resolution

Hehe, yup but you will find that it is usually a small number and not 100's like Infinity is trying to make out.

Because Battleships were changed for a reason (lol, just like Timers and everything else you think should be changed because you do't personally like it), to kill of the pre-2007 "solopwnmobiles". That's where the term solopwnmobile comes from IMO.

Battleships are perfect for their roles (Core Fleet Combat ships0 without overstepping the roles of smaller ships. As it should be, as CCP made it in 2007 after years of "make it to where you can fly and afford a BS, forget everything else..

The resistance to what you want comes from people not being short sighted and selfish about the needs of the game. Making Battleships in any way better for "solo" work (thus encroaching on smaller ships roles) is bad for the game. Any change to battleship class ships should be aimed at making them better Fleet ships. Period.

The only thing a Battleship should be able to solo is a single other player battleship....or a lvl 4 mission.

Nor do they need to. It's common sense and can be seen in CCPs design choices (same with carriers when Fighters were changed in 2009).

That's always been you problem. You want something to be a certain way (local, cloaks, timers, Battleships , whatever other personal preference) and ignore every reason why it should not be that way. you can separate your personal wants from the realities of the situation, leading you constantly to argue with people about why things exist the way they do. Baltec (for example) is also a Battleship PVPr and don't seem to have the same problems you seem to with how battleships are.

You want Battleships to be better at soloing because you like to solo and want to do so in battleships. While you are entitled to want whatever you want, his is not a valid reason for change. Wiser people understand that the current battleship class meta is fine and appropriate for a game with multiple ship classes (the developers want to minimize overlap also).

You can keep whining about it (and everything else you cry about constantly, you really should have kept that 2009 promise to biomass), but the truth is that your problem is simply your selfish and narrow perceptions, not any problem with the game or it's balance/mechanics.

Battleships are not ment to be able to used as heavy tackle ships which is what they would be used for if they can lock cruisers in the times you want. There are other ships whose job that is.

I can already get a battleship to warp as fast as assualt frigates, make them faster and it will be even easier to out warp the other ships. This means you can land battleship fleets in the same time as cruisers and not sacrifice very much if anything.

Adding a +1 to battleships would play all kinds of hell on the big fleets, they can already avoid long points as it is by fitting a mod in a valuable mid.

The HIC is what I was getting on about. In order to catch cruisers before they can warp most of the time you need cruiser locking speeds, this puts BS in the same grouping as the ships built for heavy tackle.


My Harpy fit mega warps slightly faster than the rest of the frigate fleet, No current fleets used by anyone make use of warp speed implants or rigs, with your idea you could get BS to warp as fast as cruisers rather easily and it would be used. Cruiser fleets cant afford to lose a rig as it eats too much into their tank.

It doesn't matter if you don't care about fleets, This would impact the hundred thousand others who would care about big fleets. This is a fine example of what Jenn just said about you only wanting what is best for you.

Battleships were already used as heavy tackle in the past, CCP gave us the HICs to fill that role. According to what you want, a BS that will lock a cruiser before it can flee would mean it would need the locking time of a cruiser.

BS are also more than able to keep up with frigate fleets when aligning, I have been doing it for years.

No its not incorrect, give battleships +1 and you will reduce the effectiveness of the enemy spreading points to stop an enemy fleet from warping by at the very least 50%. You comment of you not caring about fleets also provided evidence that Jenns comment on you not caring about others and only yourself was true.

Cruisers back then would squish very easily, there was no such thing as a heavy cruiser.


Those times you put down for a cruiser to align and warp are not the times you will find in game.


And this just shows how little you know about fleet fights. Right now its one point per ship, now double the points needed on each ship, now triple it. Your idea would have a massive impact on fleet fights and would make BS fleets much harder to pin down. But you don't care about the group of players who engage in the most PVP by far.

I couldn't disagree more with everything you've said.

Really the whole game needs a rebalance toward solo and small group (2-4 man) fights. Probably should scale back the ease of escalation a little bit.

The increased subscription numbers alone since the game's launch are a big part of why "small group" fights have died off.

Because there literally are more people living in each area now. And since this is a single shard game with hands off player interspersement, that basically means that it's on you to find fights of a size you agree with.

Oh, and btw, for anyone who really wants life without cynos, go live in a wormhole, that's what it's for. If you have such an issue with power projection, then that's the space you should be in.

Yes to both.

I never fly a mega in any fleet if it would be a liability to the fleet or cannot at the very least match what the ships in that fleet do. The firepower and tank are both much higher than the other ships plus I always bring a flight of armour drones which come in handy when in shield fleets. The new structure drones are a great little tool and the tackle frigs love me for it.